Subject: RE: SDL-News: How is Nondeterminism in SDL practically useful?
From: philippe Leblanc (Philippe.Leblanc#telelogic.com)
Date: Fri Jun 30 2000 - 07:24:20 GMT
I share the same opinion with Kamal. Introducing non-determinism could be
helpful when specifying a system, but not for implementation purpose. For
example, ObjectGeode supports ANY for simulation purpose, but does not
support it for implementation.
Philippe Leblanc
Telelogic Technologies Toulouse
Email: philippe.leblanc#telelogic.com
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De: Kamal.Hashmi#icl.com [mailto:Kamal.Hashmi#icl.com]
> Date: lundi 26 juin 2000 15:27
> À: ajaijames#hotmail.com; sdlnews#sdl-forum.org
> Objet: RE: SDL-news: How is Nondeterminism in SDL practically useful?
>
>
> Become an SDL Forum Society member
> <http://www.sdl-forum.org/Society/members.htm>
> The originator of this message is responsible for its content.
> -----From Kamal.Hashmi#icl.com to sdlnews -----
>
> Hello,
>
> As you have noted, non-determinism is essential for system
> specification usually in order to correctly define the allowable
> design space, and also to represent the environment.
>
> It is also considered useful for test specifications,
> but actually it is the pseudo-random number generator which
> usually underlies many executable models of non-determinism which
> is useful - true non-determinism would be non-repeatable and hence
> useless in a test specification.
>
> I can see no use for non-determinism in an actual design except
> perhaps as a high-level shortcut (or "abstraction") for a design
> which will include a random number generator (for example a
> lottery machine) - and such designs are rare.
>
> - Kamal.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ajai James [mailto:ajaijames#hotmail.com]
> Sent: 26 June 2000 13:57
> To: sdlnews#sdl-forum.org
> Subject: SDL-news: How is Nondeterminism in SDL practically useful?
>
>
> Dear SDL expert,
>
> As we see SDL has ways of representing nondeterminism in the
> language , like
> Spontaneous transition, "Any" expression and non
> deterministic decision.
> These facilities are fine for representing nondeterminism
> while "specifying"
> a system. But can anyone suggest how this facility will be practically
> useful when we start using SDL for "designing an implementation"( ie.
> typically where do we use a "None" input signal or "ANY"
> expression or "ANY"
> in a decision.).
>
> Ajai James
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> M.M.Kamal Hashmi Design Automation Centre,
> mailto:Kamal.Hashmi#IEEE.org International Computers Ltd.,
> Tel.+44 161 223 1301 x4439 Wenlock Way, West Gorton,
> Fax.+44 161 230 5757 Manchester, M12 5DR, U.K.
>
> -----End text from Kamal.Hashmi#icl.com to sdlnews -----
> For extra SDL Forum Society benefits, join at
> <http://www.sdl-forum.org/Society/members.htm>
> For help, email "majordomo#sdl-forum.org" with the body of
> your email as:
> help
> or (iff this does not answer your question) email:
> owner-sdlnews#sdl-forum.org
>
I share the same opinion with Kamal. Introducing non-determinism could be helpful when specifying a system, but not for implementation purpose. For example, ObjectGeode supports ANY for simulation purpose, but does not support it for implementation.
Philippe Leblanc
Telelogic Technologies Toulouse
Email: philippe.leblanc#telelogic.com
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De: Kamal.Hashmi#icl.com [mailto:Kamal.Hashmi#icl.com]
> Date: lundi 26 juin 2000 15:27
> À: ajaijames#hotmail.com; sdlnews#sdl-forum.org
> Objet: RE: SDL-News: How is Nondeterminism in SDL practically useful?
>
>
> Become an SDL Forum Society member
> <http://www.sdl-forum.org/Society/members.htm>
> The originator of this message is responsible for its content.
> -----From Kamal.Hashmi#icl.com to sdlnews -----
>
> Hello,
>
> As you have noted, non-determinism is essential for system
> specification usually in order to correctly define the allowable
> design space, and also to represent the environment.
>
> It is also considered useful for test specifications,
> but actually it is the pseudo-random number generator which
> usually underlies many executable models of non-determinism which
> is useful - true non-determinism would be non-repeatable and hence
> useless in a test specification.
>
> I can see no use for non-determinism in an actual design except
> perhaps as a high-level shortcut (or "abstraction") for a design
> which will include a random number generator (for example a
> lottery machine) - and such designs are rare.
>
> - Kamal.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ajai James [mailto:ajaijames#hotmail.com]
> Sent: 26 June 2000 13:57
> To: sdlnews#sdl-forum.org
> Subject: SDL-News: How is Nondeterminism in SDL practically useful?
>
>
> Dear SDL expert,
>
> As we see SDL has ways of representing nondeterminism in the
> language , like
> Spontaneous transition, "Any" expression and non
> deterministic decision.
> These facilities are fine for representing nondeterminism
> while "specifying"
> a system. But can anyone suggest how this facility will be practically
> useful when we start using SDL for "designing an implementation"( ie.
> typically where do we use a "None" input signal or "ANY"
> expression or "ANY"
> in a decision.).
>
> Ajai James
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> M.M.Kamal Hashmi Design Automation Centre,
> mailto:Kamal.Hashmi#IEEE.org International Computers Ltd.,
> Tel.+44 161 223 1301 x4439 Wenlock Way, West Gorton,
> Fax.+44 161 230 5757 Manchester, M12 5DR, U.K.
>
> -----End text from Kamal.Hashmi#icl.com to sdlnews -----
> For extra SDL Forum Society benefits, join at
> <http://www.sdl-forum.org/Society/members.htm>
> For help, email "majordomo#sdl-forum.org" with the body of
> your email as:
> help
> or (iff this does not answer your question) email:
> owner-sdlnews#sdl-forum.org
>
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